Guestsplaining: Gordon Hayward on Converting to Catholicism | Fr. Gregory Pine & Fr. Joseph-Anthony
January 13, 2025
Fr. Joseph-Anthony: This is Father Joseph-Anthony Kress.
Fr. Gregory: And welcome to Godsplaining. Thanks to all those who support us. If you enjoy the show, please consider making a monthly donation on Patreon. Be sure to like and subscribe to Godsplaining wherever you listen to your podcasts. So we are gradually changing Godsplaining into a podcast about NBA players for those of you who have noticed the gentle shift. So we’re delighted for this Guestsplaining episode to be joined by Gordon Hayward. Thanks so much for joining.
Gordon: Hey, thanks for having me, guys.
Fr. Gregory: All right, so most folks will know you, some folks may not know you, but Gordon Hayward hails from Indiana. He played college basketball at Butler and then he was drafted by the Utah Jazz where he played several seasons and was named an NBA All-Star. He spent the remaining time in his career playing for Boston Celtics and the Charlotte Hornets and the Oklahoma City Thunder and he recently retired but then, a cool twist of fate, I guess it’s not fate, I guess it’s providence, was recently received into the Catholic Church in Rome by Archbishop Timothy Brolio. So you have been Catholic for how many months now?
Gordon: Two months? I guess.
Fr. Gregory: Oh, no, let’s go. (laughing)
Fr. Joseph-Anthony: A cool 60 days, love that.
Fr. Gregory: Yeah. Let’s see this, like biggest joy, maybe biggest surprise or like biggest whatever, fill in the blank of Catholic life in these past couple months.
Gordon: I think biggest joy is going to Mass and receiving the Eucharist now. I mean, I think that was a group Lutheran, you know, so it wasn’t like it was that far off from Catholicism, but obviously didn’t receive Jesus every week. And that was kind of like one of the main things going through the whole process. That was obviously a way different. And just a huge deal. And I’ve talked with other podcasts about this and that kind of being like the main one of the main reasons why I was like okay I gotta become Catholic after reading book “The Eucharist is Really Jesus” and kind of figuring it all out like I’d say that’s the biggest joy is being able to receive receive them every week. I mean, it definitely helps you, helps me get week to week, get through it. That’s been the biggest joy for me.
Fr. Gregory: Amen. Awesome. Yeah, as we look over, like you said, you kind of recently came into the faith, but like there’s you’ve had an entire career in basketball, you know, both in college sports and high points and low points you’ve had major awards being in all-star, making game winning shots and things like that, but also tremendous low points, injuries and setbacks and losses and things like that. When you kind of look back at that, and obviously coming into the Church kind of gives you a different optic sometimes to see things differently, especially looking back on our past. When you look back on some of these kind of high points and low points, what is it that you kind of take from that and when you start to see like, okay, I’ve devoted a large portion of my life to this, but also I still have a large portion of my life in front of me, God willing. And how is it that looking at some of these high points and low points, do you start to like process that now moving into a new stage of life? Because I think many of our listeners can understand, like, when we transition stage of life, it can be hard and it can be hard to look kind of let go of something that we’ve dedicated so much of our life to, but also embrace something new.
Gordon: Yeah. Um, I mean, I think it’s when you decide to retire as a professional athlete as an athlete, even if it’s not professional, at some point time has to end for everybody, right? And yeah, you know, I don’t think it’s at there’s ever an exact moment where you can be like, yeah, I’m 100% ready to go. Even this year it’s been weird, like checking out the boxboards and walking in some of the games. This was the first fall that I’ve had in probably like 20-some years where you’re not you know, I practiced the day before the Thanksgiving or practiced our game the next day. Like so it’s been fun kind of doing all of that stuff and being with my family was a huge reason why I wanted to retire. But I think thankfully, kind of like, I mean, we joked about it, but honestly, ending the chapter of my MBA career and starting this new chapter of the rest of my life, but also becoming Catholic, that really helped me. Because it really made me think about what’s really important and it’s something that I truly felt like one of the reasons I was able to make it to the NBA was to be able to have a platform and show kids or people that you can be in the NBA and be professional athlete but you can still be a man of faith and a man of God and my parents are both 5’10”, my sisters, she’s about 5’9”, I have a twin. So for me to be 6’8” and playing the NBA, like never…I can only attribute that to God. Um, there’s no, there’s no other way that it should have ever happened. And so I think having the career that I did, where as you mentioned, you have, I had some really, really awesome high points, had some really low points where I was struggling and a lot of doubt coming in and not wanting to give it up and wanting to quit. And I think the one thing that always pushed me through was God and trying to remember that I was put in this place for a reason. And, you know, so to show the world that reason, you know, I’m playing for his glory and it was something that really helped me push through.
Fr. Gregory: So, like, I guess in College basketball and professional basketball, there’s a kind of like one team wins, everyone else loses mentality that dominates at times. And it can kind of like trivialize the accomplishments of those who make it to a certain point but not beyond something, especially of the Butler years, I’m thinking of the halfcourt shot. You far surpassed the expectations of everyone. I mean, that coach, that team, that configuration of people and the opponents that you were able to beat in the tournament. But then when it came down, you know, to like that last play, you know, your team fell short. But in a certain sense, I mean, there’s also a beauty to having exceeded expectations and to having like played with these men for these noble goals and striven as you have. So I guess like people who tend to define their lives as either, I do this thing for which I set out perfectly without any flaw or it’s a total catastrophe, total failure, I’ll never amount to anything in life. Like how is it that we can respond to the little successes or the kind of small advance or how is it that we can come to make sense of our experience even though there are only like a few people out there who win championships?
Gordon: Yeah, that’s a tough question. That’s, I mean, it is true. I mean, it’s there’s there’s definitely at the end of every NBA season, there’s one winner and 29 losers. And, you know, I think certainly would have loved to hit that half-course shot. There was actually a shot before the half-course shot that I missed that would have been, that one I actually thought had a chance and that was like one of my favorite shots to shoot, but that didn’t go any either. And, you know, I think it was looking back, which I haven’t really had a huge chance to look back because I just went on a constant whirlwind. You’re always on to the next thing, but now that I’m retired, you’re like, look back. It was an amazing journey that we had. And there’s nobody in America probably predicted we were going to get to the finals that year, at the start of the season. And the relationships that were formed during that, the people, the fans, you know, Butler’s now in the big east. We were in the horizon when I was back there. So there’s so much good that came from that, even though we failed. And, you know, as I don’t think it’s, I’m really competitive. So it’s like, I want to win everything. And it’s something I’m trying to, you know something I’m trying to teach my kids to along the way here. Like, you’re not always going to win. I think it’s more about if you get back up and you’re going to go again and try to try to do your best the next time. That’s what I think is really important. And, you know, as I mentioned, sometimes because of failures or setbacks or whatever, some other door might open that you wouldn’t have never expected. And I’m here in Charlotte now, we’ve kind of found our forever home. We love it here in Charlotte. Probably partially due to the fact that I got hurt in Boston. And it didn’t work out for me there. And so it’s sometimes things work the way you wouldn’t expect them to. And although I think you should try your best at everything you do and really try to win, it’s important that you learn from mistakes and try to keep moving forward, not just whether or not you want to or you lost.
Fr. Joseph-Anthony: In your experiences, playing basketball, it’s very much a team sport. You have individual skill sets, but you are a part of a team. And especially in the MBA, there’s such an emphasis on making sure that the team has, you know, your franchise players, your stars, but also that it has a complete set. It has your role players and things like that. You know, in being a part of a sport for such an extent period of time where that’s kind of part of the culture and learning how to play your role and be a part of that team, which may be different than individual athletes like in golf or track and field or things like that, has that actually helped at all when you talked about your conversion in entering the faith to say, like, okay, I’m part of this more larger Body of Christ instead of like this personalized, this is my individual relationship with the Lord, and let me actually enter into something bigger than myself and along those lines.
Gordon: Yeah, I mean, I think it has helped because when you’re a part of that team, you’re able to lean on members when you’re down. You know, it’s not like you’re the only one that’s there. But I mean, I like, I like both sides of that coin that you just put forth. I like having an individual relationship with God, and I think that’s extremely important. And, you know, he certainly helped me get through my MBA career, but it’s, it is really, really cool now to be a part of this community that… so like my wife is married. She’s, my wife is a Catholic. So when I got married, I was like in the community, but like not in the community, you know what I mean? And so it was, it’s really cool now to be fully in on that community. And it is, it’s a, it’s a worldwide global community fully as is Christianity, but even more to another extent, Catholicism. And so I find that really cool. And there’s just so many, so many people that I’ve met and, you know, so many doors have been opened and like you just people help any each other. And so, yeah, I think you learn that when you’re a part of a team and you get a chance to realize that it’s bigger than yourself. Our goal is to win the championship. And that doesn’t matter if I have ten points or if I have thirty points, our goal remains the same. And so I think you learn some things when you’re on a team that certainly can translate.
Fr. Gregory: I think in the Catholic faith, we look up to the saints. They’re kind of like our heroes and so far as the given indication of how we’re supposed to know and love God. And they inspire us. You read about their lives and you see the way in which they make sacrifices and it wants you to you know like it makes you want to live after the manner in which they lived. And it’s funny, like talking to people associated with the Boston Celtics, there’s a kind of cool Christian heroic culture in the sense that like you’ve got Coach Masula, who’s kind of a wild man, who says all manner of wild Christian things. And you know, you’ve got like some serious men of integrity, like it sounds like Drew Holliday’s, a real believing Christian, and it sounds like Al Horford and Luke Korn- It sounds like there’s like a real culture there of Christians who believe, who profess, who struggle, who strive. I mean, that setting or other settings, maybe who are some of your heroes when it comes to Christian faith, like Christian belief and profession, people from whom you’ve taken some inspiration or whose lives you’ve really kind of like witness as a marvel.
Gordon: Yeah, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of them for sure. And she’s one that she is certainly one that she’s at the top of that list. I think when you’re deciding to, who you want to marry, it’s one of the most important decisions you’ll ever make. And, you know, when I was looking, you know, at her, it was like, is this person gonna make me stronger in my faith? And that was certainly the case. And I think that’s really important. I would go as far as to say her brother, Max, it was also extremely important. He was my sponsor, so he traveled over to Italy. But he was somebody who just over the years, we’ve had just lots of conversations with some cigars and drinks and just talking about the faith and some of the differences. I think I just respect the way that he lives his life and so he’s been an inspiration for sure. And then also Joe was my assistant in Boston and he’s obviously the one that helped me really towards this Catholic conversion too and setting up meeting Father T. And you know, so especially with the spotlight that he has, he talked about his him saying crazy things like for him to say some of the things that he does with his spotlight is it’s amazing. And I think that’s what everyone respects is that he’s not like, he’s not going to back down. Even put under all this pressure and put under all the spotlight, he’s going to speak what he believes is the truth. And, you know, I think the players respect that as well. And so I think that’s been, that’s been a big bar to their success. To be honest, it’s not necessarily, obviously, it’s not necessarily the Catholic thing, but like I’m saying, just the fact that he’s true to himself and what his beliefs are. I think they really respect that. And so they, you know, are respectful for him and what he is gonna coach them and all that. So I think it comes from the top down.
Fr. Joseph-Anthony: Over the last, weren’t you in league for 14 years? Was that what we ended up with?
Godron: Yes, 14 years.
Fr. Joseph-Anthony: Okay, 14 years, man. In the league for 14 years, and you kind of mentioned this a little bit ago, but very hectic life. Holidays are kind of, depending on if you’re playing on Christmas day or not, and some of those things are very, very difficult to juggle with family and things like that. But even for your own kind of growth and faith, did you have any kind of prayer practices routines that were kind of anchoring for you while you traveled all over the place for these things and even coming into the church where there are any kind of preferred methods of prayer that really helped to guide you or anchor you while you’re making all these kind of transitions and living such a hectic life?
Gordon: Well, I think kind of just what I had alluded to earlier about having that individual relationship with God. I think that obviously praying before every single game was an anchor for me just trying to remind myself. I think that helps calm nerves too, because you realize like it’s all good. Like if I go out and I’m the worst player I’ve ever been, like it’s still fine. Like I’m the thing that really matters is him. And so that’s, so that kind of would help relieve some pressure a little bit before games. You know, other than that, I think having the support system that I had was huge, meaning like my wife and family and just having them to be there for me and be with me and, you know, help me, I guess, remember what’s really important. So I would say those two things. Yeah.
Fr. Gregory: Okay. I’m thinking of a listener who’s trying to figure out who he is or who she is kind of like where we fit in the body of Christ. And I think basketball has a way by which of communicating something of that mystery. So we were talking to Luke Hornet and he was saying, yeah, like my life got a lot better when I figured out who I was and what I was for within the setting of the game. He’s like, I’m good at setting picks and protecting the rim and cleaning up around the goal. It’s like, he’s like, I can do that for about 15 to 17 minutes a game. And I was like, that’s incredible. I love that self knowledge. So when it comes to like your own, your own life, you know, time and high school and college in the league time since, as you come to an appreciation of like what God is doing in your life and who you are in the mystical body, what are like some some things that you’re super grateful for? Maybe some gifts that God has given you, what you feel like, you know, you can magnify or you can communicate to other people.
Gordon: Man, you guys are hitting me with these hard questions. (laughing) First off, I’ll say, one thing that Luke is really good at is that, he’s like invented this new contest. Have you guys seen that where he comes up from the block and like right in front of your eyes? Kind of like a meme, but I love that.
Fr. Gregory: Yeah, ‘Kornet’s Eclipse.’
Gordon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. (laughing) He’s also, the other thing he’s obviously really good at is shooting threes. That was one thing that he, he was like a stretch vibe before that became a thing. Some gifts, I mean, I think we mentioned it earlier. I mean, just so thankful that I was able to grow, and become 6’8”, it was hard enough to make an MBA with the ability that I had. But if I would have been 5’10” like my dad, I would have been a real– I would have been really impressive. So-
Fr. Gregory: It’s been done just not often.
Gordon: Right, right. But I think, like I mentioned, I mean, I think just kind of having that platform and then going through the stuff that I’ve went through and being able to talk to kids about it and let them know that it’s not always gonna be two steps forward, it’s not always gonna go the way that you think it’s gonna go. And you’re gonna have to fight and persevere. And I think all those things is something that, you know, it’s, it’s part of my journey in the NBA and it’s something that I’ll be able to speak on and help kids with as, as I’m now moving into retirement and kind of moving into a mentor coaching. I don’t really want to be a coach, but like coaching people kids around me just in life and in basketball or whatever.
Fr. Gregory: You got to clarify that or teams will start calling you.
Gordon: I know, no, I don’t need that. You know, funnily enough, I’ve got my, I’m actually I’m an assistant coach. I could coach my kids. I’m an assistant coach for my daughter’s fourth grade basketball team. Yes, it’s just at our first game this weekend. We won. Yes, the score was nine to two. Yeah, so it was a deep bits of battle. But it’s been fun just hanging with the girls and so.
Fr. Joseph-Anthony: So. If we’re going to roll the tapes back a little bit and not to kind of poke a bear or really emphasize something that I’m sure you’ve talked a lot about, but going back to the the shot versus Duke. At the National Championship game. The reason why I want to go back to that is, you know, that in many respects was a major letdown, right? You had the opportunity. And for many people, they could say that as a failure on a, you know, a stage that was visible to many, many people. And you weren’t able to do what you intended to. And you maybe feel like you let other people down because of a certain failure or something that was on the biggest stage possible. Your dreams come crashing down. Who doesn’t sit in the backyard launching that three and saying, you know, I counting down in their head time and time again. I did that way too many times in my own backyard.
Fr. Gregory: I’m over here thinking to myself, like I’m starting to feel sad.
Gordon: I was about just saying to me, making me sad right now.
Fr. Joseph-Anthony: I know, that’s what I’m here for. I just want to make sure that we’re from–
Fr. Gregory: Oh, where’s the turning point? I’m gonna cry. (laughing)
Fr. Joseph-Anthony: But can you talk a little bit about actually how you got through that? ‘Cause I work with a lot of college students and sometimes when they hit a failure or maybe they don’t do what they expect, they think it’s catastrophic. Like how will I ever recover? How will I get through this? I’ve never seen anybody go… get to the other side of whatever they’re going through. And I think it can be helpful to say, like, listen, you know, there was a way to process. There’s a way to go through that, but there is there is somebody who got who made it through. So can you talk a little bit about like what that was like after in the aftermath of that?
Gordon: Yeah, I mean, it’s, I mean, hey, like it’s, it’s human nature for you feel sad about that type of stuff, I mean, it’s you know, what he wants to fail. I think you the way I and Father Gregory kind of, I think mentioned it like the way that I viewed it was, we were never supposed to get there to begin with. So the fact that I had an opportunity to even get that shot and the fact that I took those two shots because like I said, it was, there was a shot before that too. I mean, that was a success. That was, that was an unreal accomplishment for Butler University for me personally. You know, it set me on for the state of Indiana. I mean, it set me on a path towards the NBA. And, you know, so I did I did we fail as a team in winning the national title, absolutely. We did. But it was something that I think, there were so many things that we did that were considered success. And, you know, it kind of, for me, also whenever I would fail, even beyond that, um, in the NBA, if I missed a game winner or I had a bad game or whatever the case was, I tried to use that as like motivation, like, I’m going to work as hard as I can now to get myself back in that position again. So then next time, I’ll get myself another opportunity to shoot that shot and make it. You know, this I think Michael Jordan famously said he’s missed more game winners than anybody. You know, so it’s one of those things where he’s failed so many times. But he always shot the next one with so much confidence like he was going to make it. And so I think that’s the way I looked at it. That’s the way I think you got to look at it is, there’s no, I think almost anybody that’s successful in anything probably has failed at some point in time in their journey upward. And I think it’s more about, like I said earlier, picking yourself up and using that as fuel and getting yourself another opportunity. I think there was success to get to that point. You didn’t convert, but you will next time.
Fr. Gregory: Okay, so thinking more like, yeah, just about your life. Your life is set before you, which is kind of wild and exciting. You entered the league in 2010. We entered the Order in 2010. So there are many years that remained before we were tired from Dominican life as it turns out there is no retiring from Dominican life. But like, okay, so you get sent to wild places like Utah, total moonscape, Oklahoma City. I don’t think most people know that there’s an Oklahoma City until they saw it on a jersey. Charlotte is a big burgeoning metropolis now, but it’s probably transportation as far as I can tell. It’s like one bus that goes from one side to the other side of town because it’s growing way bigger than people ever thought it would. And Boston and Bostonians are widely known as the kindest people on the surface of the earth.
Gordon: Are they?
Fr. Gregory: Exactly, says a guy from Philadelphia, right? I know kind people when I see there it is So you’ve been you’ve been in some like kind of wild situations and adverse circumstances But like yeah, you just kind of go and you get sent and you bring the people that you love with you like your wife and you’re talking about your daughters when you get sent and you bring the people that you love with you, like your wife and you’re talking about your daughters. Can you maybe just talk a little bit about adaptability, whether in your MBA career and your life of faith, it’s just like seasons come, seasons go, stuff changes, but you got to keep showing up. So what does that, I don’t know, what have you learned or what does that look like for you?
Gordon: Yeah. Man, I think it’s interesting to look to kind of think about all the places that we’ve been because when you’re in it, you just don’t really realize that you’re kind of just rolling with the punches. And that I’m thankful that my wife was always cool with that. She was going to go wherever we were at and make it work because when you start having kids and it’s a lot, it’s definitely a lot to figure out all the logistics and everything. To be honest, very blessed to play in the places that I’ve played Utah, especially, I mean, I’m coming out of college when I’m 20 years old. I went to a butler, which was 20 minutes from my house. I’d never really gone away from, I mean, my mom was doing my laundry. Like I had no clue how to live on my own. And so going to a place like Salt Lake, my dad stayed with me through the first Thanksgiving, which was great, ’cause he taught me so many things that I needed to know. You know, like when I was, I kind of, I was so spoiled growing up, like silverware, paper towels, toilet paper, all that stuff’s just there at your house, right? Like it’s like, it just, it just appears, like I would have never gone to buy that stuff, just there at your house right like it’s like it just is it just appears like I would have never gone to buy that stuff you know what I mean it’s you gotta you gotta learn how to do all this stuff but Salt Lake was it’s honestly it wasn’t that much different than Indianapolis which was nice it wasn’t like I was going from Indiana to New York or LA where there’s you know so many it’s such a bigger city so many distractions So it was nice to play there that people there are super nice people, you know and then deciding to pick up and we I was there for seven years and really I tell people I kind of like grew up there because I I went from this 20 year old boy to you know when I left I had two kids and I was married and that had been my home for seven years kids and but then deciding to just uproot all of that and go back to the East Coast with Boston, which I had no clue what I was getting into, but you know, really just was excited to be back with my former college coach. And I think it was just something I had confidence that it was going to work out there and that everything was going to be good. And like I said, we’re just kind of rolling with the punches. And my wife and I were both young and we have young kids. So we’ve kind of found the community that we wanted to. And like I had mentioned, she was Catholic. So we immediately found the church that we were going to go to. And so it’s definitely easier when you’re a part of that community. Because you kind of eat no matter where you’re at when you go to Mass, you feel this like this consistency and this, you’re just this comfort, like you’re, you’re still home. And I feel like that was really cool even though back then I wasn’t, I still wasn’t Catholic, but I felt like that was always cool and always helped us kind of get our bearings straight, so to say. And then yeah, moving to, I mentioned moving to Charlotte where we’ve kind of found out forever home. Like we didn’t know that this was gonna be where we wanted to be at and we didn’t plan on it. I remember when I chose to play in Boston, I remember saying like this is where I’m gonna end my career. Like I didn’t wanna leave there. But we actually I think we, Robin and I had talked and talked about like basically wherever God sends us, like we’re going to be happy and we’re going to make it work and that he must be sending us there for a reason. And so we kind of had that like mantra as we were moving to these different places, you know, speaking of OKC, like I did not, I didn’t really want to get traded. And so going there separated from that place, my family actually didn’t come with me because they’re all in school, you know, it can’t really move them out of school and it’s during the middle of the year. So, you know, I’m kind of there by myself and they might, they would come out and visit every now and again. But that, was that was a tough, tough place to go to and again, really cool city with great people, but when you’re away from your family, it doesn’t really matter where you’re at. So yeah, I mean, that was kind of like my journey. I think it was, we’re just one of those things where, as I mentioned, wherever I felt like I was supposed to be at, like God was putting me there. And so that kind of settled me down. It’s going to be okay. This is where I’m supposed to be.
Fr. Joseph-Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. I think you keep mentioning how important your wife was and the role that she had through all of the years and all the different cities and things like that. Maybe any advice for couples who are experiencing like they have different faith backgrounds or different traditions, like from your experience, especially with your wife, like, you know, how was that and how did that help you eventually kind of get to the point where you’re like, honey, you know, actually I wanna join the Church. Like, what was it that kind of helped you over the, all the years, but finally get to that point where like yeah honey I want to want to make the jump here.
Gordon: Yeah, I hope she doesn’t watch this or else she’s going to get too big of a head here. She’s Much props here. No, I mean, she was, she was really important and impactful as far as that goes like she was really important and impactful as far as that goes. Like, so when we got married and, you know, like we went through kind of like the marriage process that you go through and talking with her childhood priests, it was something that I wanted, I felt like I wanted to do, but I didn’t want to just do it just because it was like, oh, she’s Catholic, I’m just going to be Catholic too. I wanted to, I wanted to make sure like in my heart and and I want to I’m pretty logical and analytical. I wanted to like Go through the whole process for myself and I felt like I never had the time to do that to really give it It’s proper do and so then when I retired, it was like, kind of like, let’s do this. Like I really want to do this now. And so yeah, she, I mean, she, but I’ve gone to Mass with her since we, this was, I think, 10 years for us this last summer. So I mean, just always been influenced by her on that. And like I had mentioned Max and the rest of her family too, so she was, she was extremely important and impactful on that front.
Fr. Gregory: Boom. well, we’re kind of coming to the end, but I yeah, I just want to say a word of thanks I really appreciate your honesty and just kind of like the clarity of your insights into what matters and what doesn’t matter and just kind of like the clarity of your insights into what matters and what doesn’t matter. Because I think it’s just easy for us sometimes to kind of get in our own heads and convince ourselves as to things that aren’t the case or things that aren’t true. So it’s like just to a have a straightforward gaze on your own life. It’s relative importance and then the importance of other things as they kind of come into your life and then make demands of you and give opportunity for sacrifice. I don’t know, I’m just making no sense at the stage of the game, but…
Gordon: Yeah, thanks for having me on. I mean, thank you to you guys for being able to have, I mean, I can’t tell you all the countless YouTube videos that I’ve seen of other people like you guys and you as well, where I think it’s amazing platform that you guys have to help converting Catholics like myself where you’re just trying to like figure it all out and figure out what is really is important and what this whole thing is about. So thank you to you guys. I mean, for real.
Fr. Gregory: Hey, it’s our joy.
Fr. Joseph-Anthony: We love it. It’s been a wild ride on our end.
Fr. Gregory: No prospect of retirement.
Gordon: You guys got a long career in front of you here. Exactly. We’re just going to lose our hair and then just gradually give way. So cool. All right. Well, and any final thoughts, anything you want to share for our listeners? Yeah, like cool resources that they might find of use or anything that you want to plug at this stage.
Gordon: Um, not really.
Fr. Gregory: That your wife is cool.
Gordon: Yes, she is. She is awesome. I would say I would say this. I recently just, and this is like a shameless kind of plug, but I really, I really believe this helps kids. We recently just launched a shooting product. It’s a shooting tool. It’s called Form. Um, and I’ve been, you know, I’ve been working with my kid. She’s a fourth grade girl. She’s, she’s not, she’s not great yet at basketball, but she’s, got this product helps kids learn how to shoot. It helps you kind of get a foundation for learning how to properly shoot a basketball. And I think all kids would benefit from it. And I’ve certainly seen, you know, my daughter improve. And so you could go to basketballform.com if you want to check it out. So if you want to learn how to shoot, there you go.
Fr. Gregory: Let’s go. Do Catholic, Catholic squad up in a big way. It makes serious inroads into the Catholic market. Everyone’s going to be like, yeah, there we go.
Christmas presents for everyone.
Gordon: Great Christence presents. A great Christmas present.
Fr. Gregory: Let’s go. Nice. All right. Well, thanks again. And turning to you, the listener, thanks much for tuning into this episode of Godsplaining. So if you’d like and subscribe, we’d be appreciative. And then you can follow us on socials. And then go to Godsplaining.org for updates on Godsplaining events of which there are many. We actually have a men’s retreat in Brevard, North Carolina like two and a half hours from you. So maybe we can meet you halfway and high five.
Gordon: There we go, let’s do it.
Fr. Gregory: Just kidding. Yeah, exactly. So know of our prayers for you. Please pray for us. I’m going to look forward to chatting with you next time on Godsplaining.