Social Media & Apologetics w/ @GrassrootCatholic | Fr. Gregory Pine & Fr. Patrick Briscoe

February 10, 2025

Fr. Gregory: This is Father Gregory Pine.

Fr. Patrick: And this is Father Patrick Briscoe.

Fr. Gregory: And welcome to Godsplaining. Thanks to all those who support us. If you enjoy the show, please consider making a monthly donation on Patreon. Be sure to like and subscribe to Godsplaining wherever you listen to your podcasts… unless you don’t want to and then don’t. But irrespective of whether or not you choose to like and subscribe, we’re delighted to host for this guest episode, one Keith Downey. Thanks so much for joining us.

Keith: Oh, thank you so much for having me. Both you guys. This is great.

Fr. Gregory: Hey. Okay, so our listeners will have already noticed that you have a radio voice, a voice fit for radio and a TV face, a combo that rarely comes together. So congratulations. 

Keith: Thank you. 

Fr. Gregory: But for those who don’t yet know you from Morning Joy on Guadalupe Radio or from your social media presence at GrassrootsCatholic, would you say a word of introduction?

Who you are, where you’re from, what you do?

Keith: Yeah. So my goodness, I guess I should start by saying like, my background is in theater. So I went to Arizona State University, known for sobriety and ‘edu-macation.’

Fr. Patrick: This is great. Yeah. It’s basically the Ivy League in the 1870s, right? 

Keith: Yes, that’s the best way to put it, Father. So, yeah, growing up, I got to thank my parents for raising me really well in the Catholic Faith. But there was a point in my life where I had one foot with my faith and then one foot living in the world, which we all know that doesn’t really work out too well long term. It’s very challenging. And so that’s kind of what I did was I went I got a degree in theater and was part of a sketch comedy group at Arizona State University. And this is kind of a funny story. So majority of these people, they weren’t of any faith, right? So there is comedy. It was edgy back then. Some of the things I look back, it’s kind of like, yeah, I shouldn’t have done that. But there was a time where I’m like, okay, well, I need to get you know, I need to do something aside from, you know, this comedy stuff. And so I joined Students for Life just because I knew that was, even though I was a practicing Catholic, I still went to Mass on Sundays. There were there was still moments where I was very much practicing and not good at it. And so there was a time where those two worlds blended. They collided and I had to be like, Hey guys, I’m not be able to stay for this writers meeting because I need to go to the Students for Life meeting and like, Oh, okay, well, all right, Student for Life. And I was expecting there to be some resistance, some some yelling, but they were actually very accepting. They’re like, Wow, Keith, this this is incredible. Like, I to want to learn a lot. I want to learn for life. I want to be a student for life. And I realized that they thought I was part of a club Students for Life, not Students for Life. And so there is this awkward moment where I’m like, okay, I mean, this is going to so, you know, those big posters that are up in campus when you’re walking around like, Oh, yeah, those are horrible. Yeah, that’s Students for Life! Yeah. And I can then there’s just a cold chill in the air. So anyways, that’s, that’s kind of like my life in a nutshell. Just although I obviously, you know, I’ve come to be both feet in the in the faith and not so much of the world, but there you have it.

Fr. Patrick: So it turns out it wasn’t like hang gliding or you know, some other kind of awesome high adventure like for life.

Keith: Right. Yeah, right.

Fr. Patrick: We think killing the babies is wrong.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. And apparently that that doesn’t it’s not very an exciting thing when to explain it to someone like that’s pro-choice. A whole group of people that tries to like it for whatever reason. I don’t know.

Fr. Gregory: This crazy world of ours.

Fr. Patrick: Would you say, Keith, is that, like, the first you know, we’re we’re, we’re sort of chuckling about of how the Gregory and I have certainly found ourselves in similar situations where you realize, oh, this is now a an apologetic moment. Is this like the the first core where you realize that that you were standing up for for the faith that you had to put forward what it is that you really believe in?

Keith: It kind of was. I would say that that moment that really kind of solidified it for me was when I was living in Chicago. So this group and I decided, let’s say let’s go to Chicago. It’s basically the Vatican of comedy. I don’t like to say the Mecca of comedy anymore. It’s the Vatican of comedy.

Fr. Patrick: Yeah. No. It’s like we’ve got a place, too, right? Right.

Keith: Very important. And so we went there. I studied at Second City, joined their conservatory program, and we were also performing on the side. And we lived, we all lived in a like 1800’s, 1800’s school house together. And there was a Catholic Curch. Like maybe 4 minutes of walking distance. I kick myself now thinking like, I could have actually got walked to daily Mass and I didn’t. Anyways, so there was a bar right across the street from this Catholic Church of course, and we would perform sketch comedy at this bar every so often. And we had one specific show on St Patrick’s Day, and I’ve gotten to know the pastor of this parish pretty well because I was very homesick, and the only place that I would go to that would eliminate this homesickness would be going to this parish, going to Mass. And he was there like right in the front. And we were doing a section of the show where it was just straight improv. And I have to say, I am the worst, absolute worst, that improv. Like talk about thinking on your feet. I’m not just not really good at it. And so I would try my best. And there was one moment where one of my colleagues, I guess you call him, went up and made just like a derogatory joke about the priest.

And I don’t know how… I guess it’s the Holy Spirit that went through me because immediately I thought of rebuttal and I stepped up. I did it, and it was done in a way that wasn’t mean towards the other guy. But essentially I stood up for him and the Catholic Faith and people roared with laughter. I don’t even remember what I said, but it was one of those moments where I’m like, okay, all right, I see what you’re doing, Lord. Okay. So, you know.

Fr. Gregory: So apropos of preparation now, there are various ways in which to conduct one’s life. You can prepare or you can not prepare. It seems like we’re, you know, supposed to employ or deploy a gentle blend of both. So, like the Lord tells us, you know, you shouldn’t like, rehearse the words ahead of time because you can rely upon the Holy Spirit to supply you with what’s good in life. Nevertheless, we also have accommodations or recommendations too, like invest in our formation to undergo an ongoing conversion. And that would seem to require work, which is just preparation of a certain sort. You host a radio show, so you’re producing daily content. You know, you’re active on social media, so you’re producing near daily content. And there’s a way in which the preparation can be a bit of a grind and you’re looking for some non preparation, as it were, levity, spontaneity, Holy Spirit, visitation in your own life. Where do you feel like you can kind of create space in which to renew or receive inspiration? Yeah, albeit, you know, prepare for life, but nevertheless with a kind of space or with a kind of openness to things beyond or things above.

Keith: Wow. I mean, if I, if I don’t spend time in any sort of prayer, like for whatever reason, I just become creatively, creatively, there’s my Arizona State University education coming out. I can’t even talk properly, creatively. I just become dry in that. So, you know, it’s it’s funny you talk about it’s kind of a grind getting, you know, being a Catholic content creator. I’ve over the course of three years with Instagram, with with Grassroot Catholic, it’s it’s been a it’s been really weird, to be honest, because on one hand, it’s really great to be able to use my talents to share the faith, do it in a positive manner and in a joyful manner. I, I’m fully on board with having people make content like you guys. You know, it’s it’s very joyful. It’s it’s not bringing people down within the church. But there’s always that itch within that because you know that if you make content that is somewhat controversial, you’re probably going to get more engagement, You’re probably going to get more views, you’re probably going to get, you know, your click to like ratio raised up just a little bit. Just the percentage amount, which means more people are going to see your content, which means if you’re monetized, you get paid a little bit more. And so there’s that friction that I tend to see and I know other Catholic content creators struggle with it too. But yeah, if I don’t have a solid prayer life, being able to focus on the content and not just being like, All right, I want to make something real quick. I’m not going to put too much thought into it and it ends up being just not what I would think the Lord would want.

Fr. Patrick: So the first reel of yours that I watched and the reason why I started following Grassroots Catholic is the reel about the nun who cares for the tomb of Saint Cecilia.

Keith: Yeah.

Fr. Patrick: So this is an amazing story, and I would encourage listeners to, like, dive through and dig around in and find that little real. But I remember just the impact that that one little story had on me that day. Yeah. You know, and I kept working through content all the time with our Sunday visiting with my other projects. So I’m reading through the news. But the little video of the nun was like living rent free with me for the rest of the day, I really loved it. And so, so, so I found that, that there is an, that there is an impact that Instagram can have that does actually communicate that kind of joy, that does give that does give hope in places where there’s often contention or or something far worse, where there’s where there’s debate, and the place where I spend most of my time, if I’m being honest, is on X, which is just a very different it’s a very different place than Instagram. I always point out to people like, look, it’s not Reddit, you know, on the on the social media hierarchy, Reddit is obviously below X, So I’m not I’m not down there in the very depths. But but I wonder when when people when people push back and they say, Now Keith, you should be doing you should be doing something with more meaning, something with more purpose than creating Instagram reels. So what’s your response back to that to how do you promote the kind of good things that that you’re actually doing? How do you, how do you, how do you defend that project?

Keith: You know, I haven’t had anybody tell me I shouldn’t be doing. So what people have told me to do is be like, you should do you should talk about what Pope Francis is doing or what he isn’t doing. And I’ve been having people tell me to, like, really go far into the I want to call it, like far right of the Church, but it’s people I understand, you know, they are particular they want their particular liturgy, and I understand that. But then, like, I just it all becomes kind of like an echo chamber that I don’t want to be a part of. And so when people try to like, you need to talk about this, this is what’s going on. And in the Catholic Church you should really be talking about, I’m like, do I? Do I really need to be talking? Everybody else is talking about it. And I just I don’t want to I don’t want to have people leave the church because of something I said, because I know because of the platform that I that I was given. I probably have more accountability on what I say and what I do. And there isn’t a moment where I realized that and I had to, like, pump the brakes. And I thank the Lord for my wife because she’s kind of my filter. For a while I had to show her like, Hey, like, what do you think of this? She’s like, that, Nope, don’t don’t post that, because that’s that’s going to be inflammatory to so many people. And you don’t want an echo chamber. I’m like, You’re right, You’re right. That’s why I married you.

Fr. Patrick: That’s actually a good point, because that is something that we do. You know, it’s it’s not self-censoring because you’re you’re you’re showing it to someone else. It is literally acting as a censor for you. But we do do that kind of thing amongst ourselves on this project, on the podcast, or if I think something might be too hot, I text it to a couple of friars and say, Hey, what do you think about this verse? And I, I think that’s an I think it’s a very important process for everyone who wants to communicate seriously on social media to engage in. And it can look differently for everyone. But I love hearing that for you. It’s your wife.  Because I think if we if we don’t do that, then it just becomes too raw and it doesn’t actually allow people to engage with with the fundamental truths that we’re trying to that we’re trying to share.

Fr. Gregory: Great. So I warned you that I was going to just sail weird things across the bow and here it comes. So Father Patrick and I just did like an episode about Luce, the Catholic mascot. Yes. You know, so people were concerned about X, Y, and Z things. We talked about that a little bit. But then, like, some people were like they responded very strenuously against and some people they responded very vociferously for, which is just all very bewildering and bemusing. So my conclusion was, well, Luce converting one probably not will like Lucha scandalized anyone? Probably not. But like what I was more interested in is the space between living our lives and interpreting our lives and how we navigate that. And so, like, what I’m basically interested in is whimsy, not in the sense that our whole lives are to be whimsical or capricious, but in the sense like, okay, you’re living your life and then you’re interpreting your life. What are you doing with that space? Because like a lot of folks are just going to be really ironic or dread, earnest or whatever else. So I’m thinking like, that’s a space of play. That’s a space in which we can kind of have fun and host cool arguments in which we’ll get down to principles and we’ll actually learn something about the Lord and about the human community. So I’m wondering like, you know, in that space has you I mean, like as one trained in comedy, you live there, you abide there, you live and move and breathe there. How do you navigate that in in a Catholic space, which is in a certain in a certain sense, or at least for certain people, is losing its ability to be somewhat self critical or losing its ability to be somewhat whimsical and just getting like either real serious about stuff or like real meta about stuff or whatever has just has either gotten so absorbed in its living of life as to fail to interpret it accurately or has gotten so distant from the living of life as to be. Yeah, somewhere else just kind of alienated. That’s a 5000 different concepts, none of which are clearly articulated or actually connected. But talk to me about about living your whimsical Christian life.

Keith: Living. I was about to say, I’m glad you reiterated that because you got to understand, I went to Arizona State University. So like, you have to talk a little bit slower, maybe a little bit more adjective. And I’m just getting how do I live more whimsically so when it comes to because, you know, you have to there is a line that you cannot cross. I feel as not only if I can consider myself to be a comedian, but like a Catholic one, who makes contacts. And sometimes I do make sketches every once in a while, you know, trying to have that that whimsical, you know, that that’s the comedy aspect, but not I don’t want to be offensive because, you know, there’s always going to be someone who doesn’t like or appreciate my humor. And people, every once in a while I’ll get a message saying like, that was mean spirited. I’m like, I was that wasn’t mean. I just, you know, anyways, so trying to make sure I don’t cross a line of being, you know, attacking any individual. Now, for instance, you were talking about Lue. I love Luce. Yeah. So originally I made a reel it was, you know, it’s a Halloween real and I’m giving out candy to a child who’s I’m trying to figure out like who they’re dressed up as. You know, they look like they have a sheet on them. And I’m describing them like, Oh, looks like you. You’re a ghost and you’re holding a guitar. What are you? And oh, I’m the spirit of Vatican two. And then I like a jump scare. And that’s that’s kind of the the joke. And so I took that and had, you know, someone dressed up as Luce. And I’m like, Oh, are you supposed to be some sort of anime character with blue hair? And No, I’m Luce, I’m the Vatican’s official whatever. I can’t remember exactly what the title of Luce has said. That same kind of like jumpscare going like people and it’s kind of like a not like a mockery of but just like I’m like poking fun at people that, like, are just they can’t stand Luce and, you know, it’s just it’s awful. It’s awful. I’m like, oh, come on, it’s not that bad. It’s not that scary.

Fr. Patrick: Okay, I want to propose two questions, right? Because plenty of people who listen to this podcast are young people and they heard, Oh, Keith has a wife. How did you find your wife and what advice what what advice do you have to give to a young man looking for one right now? So there’s a radically different track in the conversation. But yeah, I want to hear what you have to say since many Catholics are talking about this today.

Keith: Really, really good question. And I, I feel so bad for the people that are dating in today’s age because I, I was like we were right up in the advent of like the because I use CatholicMatch and I have a story on that very sick story. But so yeah like I didn’t have the the swiping left right I don’t know what those are, but thankfully and I feel bad for those that have to, having to live in a world like today trying to find somebody seems to be getting a little better. But still. But yeah, I met my wife on CatholicMatch and the story with that is that I was not having any luck with CatholicMatch. Actually thought it was pretty bad. And so I canceled my subscription because I just either there was someone that I’m like, Oh, this is an interesting girl. Perfect. She’s like, in all of the, you know, of she or she’s a Catholic, right? She’s a practicing Catholic. She lives 300 miles away or, you know, a thousand miles away there. I’m not really interested in moving or relocating. And so I canceled and then they charged me and I’m like, Oh, hey, guys, I you know, I notice that you charged me a canceled. Can you please, you know, fix this? Like, Oh, yeah, we’re so sorry. We’re so sorry. Tell you what, we’ll refund you and we’ll give you an extra six months for free. And I’m like, I appreciate the gesture. Not going to. I didn’t have any luck. Okay, whatever. Fine. So like a month later, I’m like, well, maybe I’ll just look. I mean, what’s the how this it’s not going to hurt anybody. It’s not gonna hurt me. I’m just going to go on there and just check. And then. And then I that’s when I found my wife. That’s when I found my wife. So she was. Yeah, that’s that’s the gist of the story. So don’t. Don’t count out CatholicMatch or anything. Just and I think it was one of those things where I’m like, all right, Lord, like, either I’ll go on there, I’ll check it out. If, if you have someone for me, perfect. If not, then that’s okay. I trust in your will. And I think that’s what did it so.

Fr. Gregory: So how long have you been married?

Keith: We’ve been married for ten years. Yeah, ten years.

Fr. Gregory: Okay. Father Patrick and I have been ordained for ten years. Okay. If you were to describe your transition from first ten years of marriage to next ten years of marriage without knowing anything about the next ten years of marriage, how would the how would that chapter be entitled in your memoir?

Keith: Oh.

Fr. Gregory: It could be like dark, like rounding the clubhouse turn, you know, like I’m only going to live another three years or. Or it could be. Or it could be light. And funny, you know, it could be.

Fr. Patrick: Whatever back nine. Yeah, exactly.

Fr. Gregory: You know. Yeah, mine would be “And it gets worse.”

Keith: You know it’s I would probably say sanctifying because you know over the course of the last ten years, I mean I’ve been a bachelor for the majority of my adult life really up until I was 28. And so, you know, I have had to really work on myself. I’m being less all about me, especially when I started having kids. Like it’s it’s now the focus is less on me and it’s on and on. My wife folks and my wife and also on my kids. And so I feel like I’m right there. I’m on the cusp of like, completing that. I’m still a work in progress. But I think in the next ten years, it’ll be less about having to curb the, you know, the pride aspect that I that I struggle in and then focusing on focusing on what next. I, you know, I guess trying to raise my children and be kind of protecting them from what’s being thrown at them as much as we can. You know, we’re planning on homeschooling and trying to raise them. Not to say that our parents didn’t do a good job, but trying to to one up them in, I guess in a manner like really trying to implement a you know, a good prayer life, showing them what to do and making, I don’t know, making the faith like not that it needs to be excited, but just like being excited about the faith. So I think that’s kind of where the trajectory is.

Fr. Gregory: You could also name it delegating and then just have a picture of your like seven children performing household tasks, some of which are in fact your response, like have one of them like balancing your checkbook.

Keith: That probably would work better if I did that than my my own self. So I’m on board.

Fr. Gregory: Nice.

Fr. Patrick: I do think there’s something about family life though, that that well, there’s not something about the cash that was so lame. Family life radically alters the way that my friends view reality the way that they view their own lives, the way that they’ve either past, even just their time as fathers, their time loving their children in the same way that, you know, the the priesthood is marked and changed my life. It’s marked and changed me. What are some of the things you didn’t expect? You know, hidden joys or challenges about being a married man today and trying to juggle all the different things you’re doing? You know, I wanted to get into family life and talk just a little bit about finding your wife and everything else, because it seems like you’re you’re straddling these two very complicated universes. You know, how do you live online and work as hard as you work, create as much as you create and live completely for and with and in your family life. Because it seems like these are two different universes that you’re straddling.

Keith: Yeah, that that is the main challenge, right? Because you know, it’s, I guess at the end of the day it’s there’s you really have to have a calendar I think. And scheduling things are very important because I’m one of the person, you know for me, like it’s really challenge to schedule creativity because oftentimes when you schedule creativity, you’re like, All right, so from now to to I am going to be creative. So like, no that never happens. It’s usually when you’re not doing something creative is when the creativity strikes. And so trying to you know it when something happens, something creative happens, writing it down and then moving on and not because yeah, you’re right. Like they are two worlds and one is more important than the other. The one, the vocation is absolutely most important.

Fr. Patrick: But oh, I thought you were going to say Instagram as well.

Keith: That was my second answer. So and that’s the thing. Like I my like my wife, she’s I don’t post about my family because I just I understand people like to post to family. That’s cool. I just I don’t want people to like there’s got to be some level of privacy, some level of separation. And, you know, that’s a challenge separating, you know, what you create, you know, content on social media. And then obviously you hey, I’m a father. I’m also a husband. I need to dedicate time for them. But then I also have to dedicate some time to create content. And so, yeah, there was growing pains, my goodness. Where like, you know, that’s the thing with social media is that… you remember Tamagotchis, right? 

Fr. Patrick: Oh yeah, yeah. 

Keith: The algorithm of social media is like a Tamagotchi, meaning that if you don’t feed, that’s great. That works for a million, it’s going to die like. And that’s kind of what social media has created. And if you don’t post, let’s say you post consistently one reel a day, say Instagram, and then you stop, the system will understand that, hey, you’re not feeding me anymore. So I’m not going to showcase any of your videos. Also, people are not going to see your content. Your visibility will go down, your engagement will go down and everything goes down. And then you realize, Oh, okay, I got to create something. So you create something. And then it’s like trying to get up to that point that you once were. It’s it’s, it’s disgusting. I hate it. It’s the worst. So, yeah, long story short, it’s it is. And I’ve, I have friends who’ve also come across this challenge of focusing on your vocation is more important than creating content. Even though like you create this content, people love it. People are eating it up, you’re getting all this visibility and it’s like, like that doesn’t matter. Like, I need the visibility that I’m getting from my family should be enough. And so, yeah, there is there is definitely a lot of friction with that. And you really have to be careful not to do the one that’s not your vocation over your vocation.

Fr. Gregory: Yeah. Okay. So one one last or one final follow up question apropos of this theme. So St. Augustine draws this distinction between to use and to enjoy. And he says that you know, we use means and we enjoy ends and then Saint John Paul the second really insisted during his papacy that we treat people as an ends of a certain sort or an end of a certain sort.

Obviously, God is the ultimate end, but we don’t want to find ourselves in the type of relationships where we’re consistently using other people. Now, mind you, does that mean that we need to, like, strike up a lasting friendship with the cashier at the supermarket? No. Like we can have good boundaries and be responsible human beings as we navigate this world of ours.

Nevertheless, like when we find ourselves using other people, something has gone wrong. Now, I’ve heard it said that social media is a place in which. There’s just use.

Keith: [laughing] What? 

Fr. Gregory: Like the algorithm is weaponized. You know, it’s just a pornographer run by a bot, you know, that answers to a dancing monkey, you know, it’s just insane. It’s totally insane. So given the difficulties of the medium, what are ways in which, yeah, you’d like, try to meet people on the Internet and cherish friendships like on the Internet when it’s just kind of tens of its own to devolve or to the base?

Keith: What was the question again?

Fr. Gregory: How do you like meet people in the internet? How do you.

Fr. Patrick: Go Sundevils! 

Fr. Gregory: Yeah, exactly. Let’s go. How do you meet people on the internet? So like, how do you create space in which to enjoy those kind of like those people in those relationships rather than just lapse into use of a crass sort?

Keith: Yeah, You know, it’s it’s I feel like it’s just like any other relationship, although it’s really challenging because, you know, you might see like someone you really want to collaborate with and you’re like, Hey, look, I would really want to collaborate with you. And the other person is like, Hey, I don’t know you, so this is cool, but I don’t like…

Fr. Gregory: Get off my lawn.

Keith: And so is like even when people have messaged me, I so much appreciate when people are like, Hey, I think I like your stuff or they like Will a laugh. And so it’s like it’s kind of like this gradual relationship building where they can send me a message and I’m like, Hey, no, that’s cool. Thanks for liking. That’s, that’s great. And then like a natural conversation, especially if there are like another Catholic content creator is just like, hey, you know, you know, talks, you want to like, collaborate or something. And so it’s just I think it’s easy to treat people just like on any other platform, like they’re not quote unquote real or they’re just it’s, it’s a different way to communicate. And so just knowing that, like, hey, this is another person on the other side of this account and, you know, simple like greeting goes a long way instead of just like getting to like, hey, my name is Josh or Greg, and I’m this goes down this entire paragraph of like, Hey, we want you to post this stuff about our our content. Like, can we just start with a hello. Yeah, let’s build this relationship. Let’s, let’s talk. 

Fr. Gregory: My name’s Olaf and I like warm hugs. Let’s be clear.

Keith: Yeah, exactly. Is this. It’s just. I don’t know. I’m not. I’m not really that I’m not a grumpy person. Okay, But yeah, just. I don’t know. Simple conversations Go far.

Fr. Gregory: Party on. I love it. Okay, well, where can folks meet you? We made mention of the Guadeloupe Radio Network and we made mention of Grassroot Catholic, although I think we call it a Grassroots Catholic a couple of times. So people will be just losing their minds trying to figure out where that s is. It’s like Sweet Christmas. You misled me for a 30 minute episode, but folks can find you there. But can you say a word as to where where else they might find you or just how to find you at those places? Yeah.

Keith: Guadeloupe Radio Network, Morning Joy: Where Truth Matters. That’s the show that I host every weekday. Grassroot Catholic. Yep. Or grassroots. I’m sure you’ll be directed to the same place. I also know.

Fr. Patrick: I have a sneaking suspicion that the grassroots Catholic people are terrible, though. They’re probably awful. You know, they’re not at all like Grassroot Catholic.

Keith: No, no, no, I so I’m actually part of a Eucharistic miracle movie called “The New Manna.” It’s in post-production, but I played John the Baptist, so that should be coming out, I think, within the next year or so. So stay tuned for that. The New Manna. So yeah.

Fr. Gregory: With which production company?

Keith: So I don’t know exactly the production company per se, but is directed by Angela Libutti. And yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of people involved in it that’s like uh, Bass Rutten is in it. Tanner Kalina is in it as well. So there’s a variety of people. It’s really great. Yeah.

Fr. Gregory: That’s awesome. Cool. Well, kudos for being a grassroots at that is Grass, which has just like a single taproot rather than those like low commit fibrous nonsense things. Seriously, because you’re interested in laying hold of the earth and not letting go. So thank thanks for taking the time for the episode and yeah, look forward to chatting at the next opportunity.

Keith: Thank you. Appreciate you guys. Thank you.

Fr. Gregory: Boom. All right. Turning to the listener, thanks for listening to this episode of Godsplaining. What’s to be said at this stage of the game? Father Gregory never remembers. But when he does remember, he directs you to Godsplaining.org where you’ll find events and merch, and also to the various social channels on which things happen. Father Patrick and I recently recorded a reel that I actually thought was funny, which happens once a year or two, so I’m pumped about that. Jesus is Lord, especially so in this Year of Grace 2025. All right, So Pilgrim of Hope it up and we’ll look forward to chatting with you over the next opportunity here on Godsplaining.